Silent Hunter 4 and the Pacific Thunder Campaign

[nuc]

________________________________________________________________________
 
The PTC began in 1999 - 2000 using Silent Hunter 1 - SHCE.  Currently we are finishing our 7th campaign.
 

2000 !  Has it really been that long?  Boy time fles !

[cdrsubron7]

It's hard to believe that the PTC began almost over nine years ago, time has really flown buy. I've been watching this thread with a keen interest, being as I was an original member of the PTC. I would very much like to see the PTC pick up SHIV as it's playing background. One thing we have to remember is that SH1 was a completed game with great utilities provided by Hawk to make SH1 the perfect backdrop for the PTC. SHIV is still a game evolving. It has come along way from it's release back last year in late March. But SHIV is still a game evolving and is far from being a finished project. New mods come out for SHIV almost every other day. TMO developed by Ducimas Rapas and the RFB developed by the RFB Team add great dimensions to the game and there are hints of greater things yet to come for SHIV that I've seen. The RSRD and the Pacific Environment and ROW are also great additions to the game. Where do we go and what do we use, everyone would have different suggestion as what to use and how it would be done. I think the ROE would have to be totally modified and revamped to make things worked. OK, that being said, I think SHIV has a world of possibilities ahead for the PTC and you can count me in in any capacity that I can help out. It should be alot of fun. 

One other thing I forgot to mention is that the U-Boat addon which upgrades SHIV to v1.5 is the platform on which any new patch or addons will be based on by Ubisoft.


Jeff

[subsowespac]

Jeff,

Thanks for the info about the U-Boat addon.  I was not aware that v1.5 is the platform on which any new patch or addons will be based on by Ubisoft.  Thanks also for your thoughts about using SH 4 for PTC.  I think most of us are in agreement about doing that.  I also think we need to start discussing how the ROI should be changed to facilitate the move to SH 4.  For starters, I think that our Sub School is very solid; we can use your custom missions as a training platform for newcomers.  Secondly, I think that initially we should have only one squadron, probably SubRon 14.  Thirdly, as I see it the most difficult question we have to discuss is how deal with patrol zones and cycle numbers and dates.  If you or anyone else have any thoughts about it I'd sure like to hear them.

Ed Howard

[nuc]

I would cetainly like to see the move to SH IV and am willing to help in any way I can.   In looking back at the ROE I am not sure the rework has to be that extensive.  Sections 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 4.0 and 9.0 have the majority of the changes.  I think the major issues to be addressed are:

Realism settings
Tonnages and "Target Density"
Crew Experience
Patrol Zone Selection
Boat Assignment
Weapons Load Out
Special Missions

For each issue I think there are two questions (both of which involve Mod usage).  First is "what do we want to do on the issue?"  and the second is "how do we do it?".


Just my way of thinking about it

Rick

Edit:  Probably should consider some abbreviated "trial cycles" before initiating PTC 8.

[cdrsubron7]

One of the things I think we really need is something similar to Hawk's Newboat utility. I always thought that one of the things that made the PTC work so well was the ability to pick a new boat when you were given command, which means we need a SHIV Commander similar to what the SHIII Commander does for SHIII.




Jeff

[nuc]

One of the things I think we really need is something similar to Hawk's Newboat utility. I always thought that one of the things that made the PTC work so well was the ability to pick a new boat when you were given command, which means we need a SHIV Commander similar to what the SHIII Commander does for SHIII.

A while back skwasjer at Subsim indicated he was going to take on that project but I haven't seen anything lately.  S3D is probably taking all his time.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=130758

[aanker]

 
Secondly, I think that initially we should have only one squadron, probably SubRon 14.  Thirdly, as I see it the most difficult question we have to discuss is how deal with patrol zones and cycle numbers and dates.  If you or anyone else have any thoughts about it I'd sure like to hear them.

Ed Howard
 

One thought for now is there may be a few members who don't have SH4 and might be interested in continuing to use SHCE in the PTC.  I could be wrong however if there are, a SHCE SubRon might be nice to have.  We'll be conducting a poll soon and get a better lay of the land ( or in this case sea ) then ... lol
 
Art
 
Edit:
The dates and 'general' Mission Orders for the 15 cycles might work fine just as they are.  Patrol Zones each cycle could be edited as Rick Turk suggested with his method on page 1.
 
Man, I'd like to find a way to convince Tater to fine tune his ICL into 1.5 'stand alone' compatibility.  Traffic is dramatically reduced in the ICL and the shipping routes are historically accurate.  The shipping and Task Forces etc are dynamic - not scripted and are similar to SHCE's unknown randomness.  Then, we wouldn't be forcing people into using a 'Super Mod' ... some may not want to use one.

[cdrsubron7]

That also brings to mind the question of what mods do we require for SHIV. There are so many and new ones come out everyday, you hardly get installed and the next version of it comes out a few days later. I think a base layer of mods should be made so at least everybody who participates is on the same footing, so to speak. There can be miscellaneous mods to be installed to suit everybody's taste then.




Jeff

[nuc]

  We'll be conducting a poll soon and get a better lay of the land ( or in this case sea ) then ... lol
 
Art

We might want to find a way to reach out to those who have participated over the years but are no longer actiively following the the site here or the yahoo group.

[aanker]

We might want to find a way to reach out to those who have participated over the years but are no longer actiively following the the site here or the yahoo group.
 

Of the 150 +/- I sent out inviting past members for PTC VII all but 35 bounced... with people most likely moving to different ISP's.  Although I changed to cable internet I stayed with Earthlink subcontracted through Comcast to keep the same email address.  I think most just move.  I agree, no harm in going down the 'big list' and trying... also posting in the various forums.  I did that this campaign too.
 
Art

[cdrsubron7]

Agreed, Art. We will have no problems drawing members to participate in an SHIV virtual campaign with the amount of Forums to put messages up on. We've just got to come up with some bylaws and keep them simple. I think if we get too complicated it will be a detraction from drawing people.

[don1reed]

Howdy Gents,

Turk  msged me re PTC 8 via SH4.  I'd like to cast my lot with you again if that be the case.

I've been using "Trigger Maru" and stand along Python script with Stellarium to use Real Navigation.  So far it's been working perfectly.

Real Navigation:  Sextant altitude results converted into real sight reductions to determine one's LOP and placed on Plotting sheets and then transposed to F5 screen.  Complete with 1940-1945 Almanac & Ephemeris...and No Sub Icon on F5 screen.

Cheers,

Don

[subsowespac]

I agree with Rick's comments about the ROI sections we probably need to revise and the major issues we need to address, i.e., Realism Settings, Tonnages and "Target Density", Crew Experience, Patrol Zone Selection, Boat Assignment, Weapons Load Out, and Special Missions.  I've been corresponding with Art via email frequently about some of these issues and following the comments posted here closely.

For purposes of this post only, let's just forget about mods and super mods.

Do we want to be able to operate the next campaign using SH4 and the standard PTC cycle dates (i.e., one patrol each month covering 3 historical months)?  If so, can we do that using the American Career option in Silent Hunter 4?  We were using the Career option when I first opened this forum and it seems to me this just might work as long as we end our career patrols close to the end of a cycle.

With respect to realism settings, it is my personal opinion that we should allow the option for map contact updates and the external view, which together add up to 20 percentage points in the 100% realism calculation.  Using this standard, someone using manual TDC would play at 80% realism, while someone using auto TDC would play at 65%.  I would also recommend not requiring the option for Limited Batteries (7 realism points) because they drain too quickly in SH 4.

Regarding boat assignments, BuPers already has the names of boats historically available for various dates and commands.  After receiving a boat assignment from the game (or upgrade to new construction), it would be fairly easy to get a boat name and hull number from BuPers for the boat class the game assigns you in a particular time period.

IMHO, patrol zone selection will not be possible until and unless we can cultivate a home grown modder who can make a utility or mod specifically for the Pacific Thunder Campaign, such as Hawk did for SHCE.  I know there are a lot of mods out there that can do some of what we need to some degree, however there are also generally a lot of other changes that come with these mods that I (for one) do not want.  Eventually we will develop the knowledge to make the utilities we need ourselves or the Devs hopefully will hear us and issue a patch.  For now, I believe we should work with the game pretty much as it is.

Regarding tonnages and target density, I say let the game sort it out, at least for now.  I also do not think we should have a WRL or a restriction on sinking DDs or escorts.  Perhaps down the road we may want to tighten up these areas, but while we are the starting gate and until we've completed several laps, I think we should leave it alone.

As to weapons load out and crew experience, for now I think it would be best to let the individual skipper select his torpedo inventory and guns, and develop his crew.  We may also want to re-visit this issue sometime down the road, but for now I am more concerned with getting us organized and ready to sail after the Japs attack Pearl on December 7th.

Special Missions could come into play if a skipper finishes a career patrol and wants to tackle an additional assignment while waiting for the next patrol cycle.  Lord knows Jeff Johnson has certainly made and posted enough of them so we have a ready supply to use.  They could also come in handy if we get someone who wants to join the campaign in the middle of 1943, for example.  We may be able to create a special mission (or missions) that would allow him to at least begin patrolling with the rest of us until he can start a career beginning in 1944.

Regarding patrol reports, I think Art and I both want to continue using the current Yuku forum (formerly eZboard).  I think Art would also like to keep using the current awards system (correct me if I am wrong Art).

Ed Howard

[aanker]

I agree Ed.  We will find our 'sea legs' with SH4 as time goes on.  In addition to your thoughts regarding the initial relatively loose RoE's about the only thing I would like to see discouraged is harbor raiding because historically it just wasn't done.  Any recons and insertion type missions would then be conducted secretly ... with any luck ;-)
 
Art

[Rockin Robbins]

Ouch! Ed, you think batteries don't last long enough? In the real sub they lasted only 60 minutes WFO. Testing I've seen says they're darn close to reality. I have never played with unlimited batteries and never had battery life be an issue. But if I were to play unrealistically, I suppose I could make the submarine something it is not. But the WWII submarine was a surface ship that could submerge when absolutely necessary, not a true submarine as we expect today. Ducimus is much more knowledgable than I am on this issue. Maybe he could comment.